sparks

I'm assuming that if one of our kids murdered someone or beat up an old person etc we would take them straight down to the police station... But if your kid was involved in the riots, or nicked something what would you do? Instinct says yes you should turn them in.... But nowadays the real punishment isn't the sentence...it's the lifelong tag you have put on you that means you have no effective future. In my day, there was the 'rehabilitation of offenders act', which meant do the crime and accept the punishment. After a period, if you behave it won't be neccessary to disclose that crime. It acted as an incentive to not re-offend. Where is that incentive now? So for that reason, I wouldn't shop my kids to the cops....they would of course get hell from me! What do others think?

Somethings gonna blow! And well done Camoron....you've just created an army for the next wave!

'Joe public' doesn't care because they are spoon fed lies.. But when 'joe public' finally wises up to those lies, these recent riots will be a footnote in the history books!

As I said before - many more of this to come...the courts will be clogged up for ages! And meanwhile the real crims will be getting away with it because the prisons are full with 'rioters' ... or should I dare say it - political prisoners!

:Thumbs_Up1:

Just a thought..Imagine looking from the outside in from certain quarters... The requests to shut down messaging services, general curfews, dispersal orders, kangaroo courts/instant 'justice', forced homelessness, the world's biggest surveillance system and an increasingly militarised police force that is largely unaccountable, limited access to legal services, secret courts, house arrest without trial... Add to that a corrupt parliament/said police force, discredited electoral system, a ruling/wealthy elite creaming off the nations wealth... A nation that attacks/invades other sovereign states illegally in order for financial gain... (And you wait until you see what they have is store next year all in the name of a 'Safe Olympics'... :Winky:) How else would you describe the UK, ALL1...? And a view from the other side... http://www.presstv.i...ail/194012.html Is our propoganda any better or worse than theirs?

So come on... How many agree with this? http://www.guardian....sorder-facebook How long before it becomes a 'crime' to criticise such a sentence?...How long before it becomes a 'crime' to criticise the Government?...How long before it becomes a 'crime' for just thinking the government is crap! Mixed with the talk of curfews for all, who is now in any doubt we are actually no better than those countries we condemn for their abuses of their own populations? We are creating political prisoners in all but name!

Real assets in this country (and across the world) were surpassed by imaginary ones decades ago... So an interesting example is the new university fees system. OK, so you don't pay up front, and you only start paying back when you earn over £21k.. Sounds fair, right?....Until of course you look into the 'small print'! You can't pay upfront (£9k a year), but on graduation (despite promises of a 'penalty'), rich people will be able to pay off the whole amount (£27k) in a lump sum without it costing a penny more... Those who can't will be forced into a system that they are then tied into even if they then later come into an inheritance that would enable them to do so... So what does that mean?...well it means a new tax bracket for those who go to university - an extra 10% of your wages above £21k disappears!...And why is that REALLY good news for the government? There have been several studies which have worked out how much a student will have to pay back. Given the assumption of 'average' inflation (3%) and the average wage of a graduate after 5 years (£35k) and average wage increases (3% p.a) there is no way to pay off the debt...in fact unless you start earning £40k, you never pay off any of the capital, and until you earn £65k you will still be paying back after 20 years...(all figures based on wages this year). So what does that mean overall?....The average that graduates will be paying off over the period of the loan will be over £135k at today's rates...! This of course assumes that any government won't change the terms of the repayments or the interest rates (surely not... :Surprise: ) So if our two kids were going to Uni next year, on average the family debt would increase by £270k.... But ours are a decade away, so the bills they would face we can only guess at... Our advice then will be: 1. Get a degree abroad at a better rate 2. Graduate and then emigrate - and don't tell them where you're going 3. don't bother! Regarding number 2, Here's a prediction... The student fees (and debts) will become the responsibility of parents if they go into default...It happened to us (mrs sparks's icelandic education 'loan') 20 years ago...it crippled us for the best part of a decade (our mortgage would now be less than half it is now), but if we didn't pay they would have gone to her parents over there. They didn't have any spare money, so they would have lost their house! So debt becomes an asset all over again!

This isn't Justice - It's vengeance! The looters broke society's rules... Now society is breaking it's own rules! The meltdown continues!

Interesting take on what a 'criminal' is... Police used number-plate spotting technology to turn known criminals away from Manchester in the days after the riots. How do you tell a 'known criminal' from a reg plate? And what were their crimes?... So most (if they were actually properly identified at all) had done nothing serious at all? And those convictions were obviously in the past. So what now - pre-emptive injustice? This of course has been going on with protestors for years... Anyone believe we aren't living in a police state!! So all those in the kangaroo courts going on now will be judged for life... Yeah, like pointing guns at people?... No wonder that f*cking yank is being called in!

Bikes..those were the days! Never had a full license - went from a learner to a car. But I did have a Bob Gollner KT250 trials bike... Which reminds me... on that European Hitching trip I went to crete from Athens to Crete, and on a whim decided to hire a bike. And way back when Greece was the non law abiding country it is going to become again, who needed a licence!When I came out of the hire place, there was a swiss girl asking if anyone was heading to the south of the island? Naturally I obliged and that was a fun 3 days. Talking of hitching a lift suddenly reminded me of that - ah, the memories...( :Winky: ) Oh, and also just remembered. In Turkey, a mad truck driver who gave me a lift allowed me to drive a 38 Tonner!

I was just reading this article, and it brought back memories... Is hitchhiking a thing of the past? We used to get around our local area all the time this way when we were younger - when we weren't bunking the trains...lol I hitched all the way from Calais to Trabzon in Turkey (apart from a quick flight from Dubrovnik to Skopye), and then back to Athens. As well as around NZ and Israel.. Never felt threatened, but I wouldn't be bothered to do it any more, and would be concerned if our daughters did the same when they are older...And irrational too, given that I don't believe that there are any more weirdos out there than back then. I haven't given anyone a lift in years - but then I can't remember seeing anyone hitching for years! So has anyone else hitched/given people lifts, and have your views now changed? Does anyone still do it?

An interesting article.... Link And what did our illustrious leader say about their antics? Sounds like 'riotous behaviour' to me!

I'd have said the opposite given the reports so far.. And over two thirds remanded, whereas the usual rate is 10% ! I do find it amusing though that whilst Camoron is going on about arresting as many as possiible and giving out tough deterrent sentences, the guy he sees as his saviour (the american 'super cop') says that's not the answer... His approach is to get the youngsters involved in community centres ....Dumb Dave is of course in the process of closing those centres down! And what everyone has to realise is that all those with a criminal record now become effectively unemployable for life given our draconian CRB set up! That's really just going to make things worse....If you don't have a future, then why should you give a f*ck anymore! Mind you, when the lawyers get involved with appeals and the time it takes to get a crown court trial, the courts are going to be clogged up for years! Especially if the numpties then insist on trying to kick whole families onto the street for an alleged offence by one member of that family....That won't happen of course, but it makes good headlines for the government!

A Similar one was doing the rounds after the Student protests... I recall MP's getting all in a state about it then...

Does this seem familiar? 1984!

Cameron's law: PM planning crackdown on rioters Can we expect a similar reaction from Obama?.... Link Funnily enough Camoron thought it important enough to talk about too... Link

Steal £3.50 worth of water - get 6 months... Steal billions - get a bonus.. There is no doubt that the politicians are now telling the judiciary what to do... Welcome to England - a bankrupt country in all senses of the word, and no different from any banana republic you care to mention! Edit: Oh, and as if to further prove the point.... Hundreds refused bail, and remanded in custody...but:

A veteran of being involved in too many campaigns to list.... But the highlights: Getting rid of local Town Wardens/Bullies...That was a fun campaign! Preventing the sale of local council/public land in the South Downs national park, and involved in plan to conserve the land..Ongoing, but it looks like we will be getting full public access! Stopping a local housing development destroying an ancient woodland...the wood is saved, but development plans downsized - still fighting that one! (Currently involved in campaign to stop the forests sell off...major u-turn by condems, but 15% still at risk) Some of these have been covered on local/national TV/Radio... Oh, and my MP (who has been a bit of a bad boy in parliament recently) won't talk to me anymore after being humiliated in the local media for being shown up as a liar!...that one is with the parliamentary ombudsman at the moment... Sorry if you thought I was all talk.... :Winky: The other half sometimes gets involved too - she got the council to change the street cleaning policy in our area which has really improved things. And she is currently trying to get the council to reverse it's decision to charge for street parties... But none of this would have been possible from within the council, as all that ever seems to happen is political infighting! And

In a follow up to 2ndloser's intuitive post... UK riots: insurers 'will pay claims then recover money from the police'

The recent events have reminded me of an interesting incident... Some years ago we had a 'static' protest regarding a development we were trying to prevent (and so far have done so). It was 'static' because that was legal at the time, and a moving demo would be illegal...however as often happens, events took over and a march on the Town Hall took place.. One particular cop tried to prevent this happening, and indeed tried to 'read the riot act'... I shall never forget a very respectable old lady (at least 70) walking up to him and saying.... "young man - go f*ck yourself"! Morale of the tale - don't believe in stereotyping!

It's much easier to influence things outside of local politics...too many go in hoping to do good and end up as corrupt as the rest!

Fair enough - you are entitled to your views, despite not actually putting forward any reasonable argument IMO... It's just a pity that those views don't change when the facts do!... Some of us wait to see what develops before spouting things that very quickly come back to haunt! As for my 'favourite subject', I'm not sure which one that is. But if you are unable to see that a lot of the subjects being discussed at the moment are linked, then it's no wonder that solutions to the problems are almost impossible to find! But here's a question for you (and everyone else)... Do you think that overnight virtual courts with no access to proper legal advice are the way to go in the UK in 2011?

What was that about a parrot?... I believe you've already spouted your 'non' viewpoint here already.... :Winky:

At least someone else has the ability to analyse the situation... :Thumbs_Up1: In addition, the police no longer 'read the riot act' (as they should, andno it's not just a saying), because they would then be culpable as you say... And what those who appear in court should do is to claim common law justice!