Jamer Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Looters & Rioters sentences far to short in my opinion, one guy got just 10 weeks! So he will spend just over a month in jail, what a joke! some deterrent that is, Judge needs locking up! It's no wonder this country is facing these issues, we are too soft! :Furious: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Sorry Jamer... When the people who have f*cked over this country get off scott free, 10 weeks for expressing an opinion is an insult! I haven't seen the sentences yet, but since when is 'summary justice' going to change anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveb47 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 10 weeks for expressing an opinion is an insult! Yes to every right minded person in the country. Should be a minimum 5 years for taking part Looter & arsonists 20 years Hit the scum hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Hit the scum hard What's the difference between someone nicking a TV on a whim and someone defrauding us for years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamer Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 What's the difference between someone nicking a TV on a whim and someone defrauding us for years? Sorry sparks but the images that I saw were not of someone nicking a TV on a whim, these were idiots kicking in shop windows and stealing goods, other people setting fire to shops, cars and property. One old woman had her has burgled by a gang! Don't get me wrong, I know some sentences are ridiculas for other crimes in the past, but these people this week need a short sharp lesson I'm afraid, there is no reason or excuse for a lot of them, some of the idiots being interviewed were a joke to society. Min sentences for anyone taking part in this senseless violence and criminal damage in my opinion should be at least 18 months! at the very least!! (remember they will only serve half or less) If I remember during the war anyone looting was shot... as I said we are far too soft in the country and that is why they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 So do you think a couple of days ago they were thinking of helping themselves from Currys? It's opportunistic looting, nothing more nothing less... Compare that with those who have been systematically and calculatingly defrauding all of of us over a period of many many years!...and gotten away with it! So who do you think is more deserving of that 18 month sentence? This is quite interesting reading, even given the source!... Riots: Meet the accused - Lifeguard, postman, hairdresser, teacher, millionaire's daughter, chef and schoolboy, 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamer Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 So do you think a couple of days ago they were thinking of helping themselves from Currys? No obviously It's opportunistic looting, nothing more nothing less... Compare that with those who have been systematically and calculatingly defrauding all of of us over a period of many many years!...and gotten away with it! Granted but that was is a different situation sparks, and yes some have got way with it So who do you think is more deserving of that 18 month sentence? No, but where violence is involved then sentences should be more harsh This is quite interesting reading, even given the source!... Riots: Meet the accused - Lifeguard, postman, hairdresser, teacher, millionaire's daughter, chef and schoolboy, 11 Here are a few international quotes; comes a time when you have to take off the gloves and this is such a time. I think what I find most surprising is the way the looters are being treated. They have received taps on the wrists thus far for all they have done and unfortunately, until they are shown that real consequences exist for their madness, the riots will continue to spread and the number of deaths will rise. I do not believe that this has anything to do with the economy. It's all about a misguided set of youths with the wrong set of values. The authorities need to come down on them as hard as it takes to get it into their heads, and that's just not happening right now. Abiodun Gaffar, Lagos, Nigeria I think that the British police and government have acted with great restraint with these looters. These looters should try the same thing in the US. Here shopkeepers during riots are armed and post signs stating "looters will be shot". If water cannons and plastic bullets are used against demonstrators in Northern Ireland then why do they hesitate using them in England? Fran Powell, Baltimore, US As an American, I am reminded of the Los Angeles riots of 1992. However, it seems that the rioters in LA had a deeper reason for the instigation of their violence - racism - and that it burned much faster and hotter, coming to a quick end. This rioting seems to have its origins in just a general discontent over the economic malaise currently plaguing most countries. It also smacks of the underclasses getting their revenge on the wealthier people in the country. I am surprised that a stronger response by the police hasn't occurred, as it would have here in the states. Melanie Hallbeck, New Mexico, US My wife and I were born in east London and a north east suburb of London respectively. We grew up in wartime and post-war London. Our families had a home and enough to eat, but there was never a thought of spare money or luxuries. Everyone worked hard for what they got. Family life was strong as was the code of conduct expected of everyone in the community. We emigrated to Canada in our early 20s. The riots have shocked and disgusted us. We have been proud of our British heritage but disassociate ourselves from current British society. We feel it was a huge mistake to allow mass immigration to such a small, overcrowded country. It has changed society and the racial diversity has just compounded the problems. Cultures don't mix and probably never will. We had hoped the government might act more forcefully to put down these mobs. The police are overwhelmed and the army should have been brought in. Why did it take four days for the PM and mayor to show up? What a total lack of effective leadership. King George VI and Queen Elizabeth stayed in London during the blitz. Cameron was more concerned with a few more days in the sun in Italy! Brian, Vancouver, Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveb47 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Putting it simply for those who dont understand.. Looting is a cowards crime,it is not a misdemeanor, it is a crime commited just for personal gain on the back of other peoples misfortune. professional people should be hit hardest with sentence,they should know better. If they dont they aint worth a w**k All sentences should be the same for all involved Looting set high sentence Rioting set high sentence etc No exceptions. And sparks,please give up on thiis continual c**p about those up top,this post is not what this is about,it is a totally seperate issue,Go open a post about it and see if anyone is really interested at this moment except you?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Personally I can't give a stuff about 'international quotes'...What we need to look at is what is happening here and not go down the route that the 'hang 'em, flog 'em' brigade wants! Camoron has quite rightly said 'a part of our society is sick'... May I suggest he looks at the 650 odd in parliament first, then move on to the ruling elite/tax fraudsters/corrupt police etc... Then and only then should he have the right to criticise those on the streets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
densh1 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 10 weeks for expressing an opinion is an insult! God here we go again i actually think your short in the bloody head . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 And sparks,please give up on thiis continual c**p about those up top,this post is not what this is about,it is a totally seperate issue,Go open a post about it and see if anyone is really interested at this moment except you?? Really?... Maybe if you addressed the problem instead of sticking your fingers in your ears whilst going 'la la la la'... still I can see your problem - you don't have a clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 God here we go again i actually think your short in the bloody head . Ah, here go the insults again... Still, I guess that may be because you don't have an idea of your own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 So who here agrees with overnight 'virtual' courts where the accused is denied proper legal representation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 In the courts the people that have been caught are being charged with burglary and public order offences, not rioting, not looting, because under the law the government (via the local police forces), rather than the insurance companies, would be held responsible for compensation costs for failing to uphold law and order for both of these offences, that's why in his two speeches on the subject the prime minister didn't mention either "rioting" or "looting" - it's all a clever ploy to avoid culpability. What bears this out is the initial response by the police who on the first few nights seemingly didn't respond to those rioting and looting but was this by design? In the event of rioting the official tactic is: 1. Identify the leaders / instigators 2. Deploy "snatch squads" to remove them 3.Contain the remaining crowd ("kettling") In the event of public order offences the official tactic is: 1.Observe / record the offence 2.If this includes breaking and entry of a premises - secure the premises after the fact 3.Arrest suspects using aquired evidence Most of the culprets who pleaded guilty have been referred to crown court because magistrates do not have the sentencing powers, burglary = 6 months as opposed to 10 years if a case is heard at crown court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 In the courts the people that have been caught are being charged with burglary and public order offences, not rioting, not looting, because under the law the government (via the local police forces), rather than the insurance companies, would be held responsible for compensation costs for failing to uphold law and order for both of these offences, that's why in his two speeches on the subject the prime minister didn't mention either "rioting" or "looting" - it's all a clever ploy to avoid culpability. What bears this out is the initial response by the police who on the first few nights seemingly didn't respond to those rioting and looting but was this by design? In the event of rioting the official tactic is: 1. Identify the leaders / instigators 2. Deploy "snatch squads" to remove them 3.Contain the remaining crowd ("kettling") In the event of public order offences the official tactic is: 1.Observe / record the offence 2.If this includes breaking and entry of a premises - secure the premises after the fact 3.Arrest suspects using aquired evidence Most of the culprets who pleaded guilty have been referred to crown court because magistrates do not have the sentencing powers, burglary = 6 months as opposed to 10 years if a case is heard at crown court. At least someone else has the ability to analyse the situation... :Thumbs_Up1: In addition, the police no longer 'read the riot act' (as they should, andno it's not just a saying), because they would then be culpable as you say... And what those who appear in court should do is to claim common law justice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveb47 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 May I suggest he looks at the 650 odd in parliament first, then move on to the ruling elite/tax fraudsters/corrupt police etc... Then and only then should he have the right to criticise those on the streets! Change the record please,polly,sorry sparkie. there may or not be truth in what you say,but stop winging about it in every single thread,this thread is not about that,please start a new thread if you want to discuss it. I am sure you will get many replies on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Change the record please,polly,sorry sparkie. there may or not be truth in what you say,but stop winging about it in every single thread,this thread is not about that,please start a new thread if you want to discuss it. I am sure you will get many replies on the subject. What was that about a parrot?... I believe you've already spouted your 'non' viewpoint here already.... :Winky: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Well to add my 2p's worth i think Jamer is right in one way we do need to give a decent sentance and a few weeks is a joke, however sparks has also hit the nail on the head as well IMO, is it any wonder some people loot when you have multi millionaires fiddleing the expensises and claiming for duck ponds and bath plugs IMO they are worse then the scum who were looting, when you look at the looters some i guess are stealing because they can't afford latest gear which in no way is good, look at me i'm skint have to buy 2nd hand pc bits most of the time and buying a new tv has taken me years to save for and i do mean years, but i never went looting even though it would have been dead easy given my location. Then you have the lot that are loaded and still want to fiddle things WHY? i mean you have millions why nick a few thousand from people like postman, claners, bin men, shop workers, factory worker they have little and pay there taxes and the rich won't to steal from them, let alone people like Phillip Green who make my blood boil, so in a way there is no wonder some folks riot, it's not right but when you just take 5 mins to see things from there POV if the rich are gonna steal then why don't I, after all if it's good for them it's good for the others, as for setting fire etc no reason for that and they should get a long stretch, however given jails are full and we have no room to put pedo's in it does p1ss me off we can find room for looters all of a sudden, afetr all mum's and dad's who would you rather have next door to you a looter or a nonce? All1 P.S. I ain't scared of Sparks I can see both sides of the fence and IMO Jamer is right but Sparks does IMO have avery valid point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveb47 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Change the record please,polly,sorry sparkie. there may or not be truth in what you say,but stop winging about it in every single thread,this thread is not about that,please start a new thread if you want to discuss it. I am sure you will get many replies on the subject. This is my view on you.... I have stated my views quite clearly in this and my other posts,all regarding subject of the posts. About time you realised that members make posts to discuss a subject and not to be hijacked by you on your favorite subject. Are you not capable of having a sensible discussion???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazling Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Its the same as its always been the Rich get Richer the Poor get Poorer and will allways be like that. Sparks why dont you run for your local goverment? then maybe 1 day you can change the way things are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 This is my view on you.... I have stated my views quite clearly in this and my other posts,all regarding subject of the posts. About time you realised that members make posts to discuss a subject and not to be hijacked by you on your favorite subject. Are you not capable of having a sensible discussion???? Fair enough - you are entitled to your views, despite not actually putting forward any reasonable argument IMO... It's just a pity that those views don't change when the facts do!... Some of us wait to see what develops before spouting things that very quickly come back to haunt! As for my 'favourite subject', I'm not sure which one that is. But if you are unable to see that a lot of the subjects being discussed at the moment are linked, then it's no wonder that solutions to the problems are almost impossible to find! But here's a question for you (and everyone else)... Do you think that overnight virtual courts with no access to proper legal advice are the way to go in the UK in 2011? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Sparks why dont you run for your local goverment? then maybe 1 day you can change the way things are! It's much easier to influence things outside of local politics...too many go in hoping to do good and end up as corrupt as the rest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 In a follow up to 2ndloser's intuitive post... UK riots: insurers 'will pay claims then recover money from the police' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveb47 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Do you think that overnight virtual courts with no access to proper legal advice are the way to go in the UK in 2011? Yes as they will only either plead guilty & br dealt wiith or remanded not guilty pleas will be heard at later date,Whether they should get bail or not is a different matter. It's much easier to influence things outside of local politics...too many go in hoping to do good and end up as corrupt as the rest! probably getting 1 vote is another reason for you not to stand lol :In-love: Just wondering if you have managed to influence anything yet??/ Serious question,not taking thewee btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Just wondering if you have managed to influence anything yet??/ Serious question,not taking thewee btw A veteran of being involved in too many campaigns to list.... But the highlights: Getting rid of local Town Wardens/Bullies...That was a fun campaign! Preventing the sale of local council/public land in the South Downs national park, and involved in plan to conserve the land..Ongoing, but it looks like we will be getting full public access! Stopping a local housing development destroying an ancient woodland...the wood is saved, but development plans downsized - still fighting that one! (Currently involved in campaign to stop the forests sell off...major u-turn by condems, but 15% still at risk) Some of these have been covered on local/national TV/Radio... Oh, and my MP (who has been a bit of a bad boy in parliament recently) won't talk to me anymore after being humiliated in the local media for being shown up as a liar!...that one is with the parliamentary ombudsman at the moment... Sorry if you thought I was all talk.... :Winky: The other half sometimes gets involved too - she got the council to change the street cleaning policy in our area which has really improved things. And she is currently trying to get the council to reverse it's decision to charge for street parties... But none of this would have been possible from within the council, as all that ever seems to happen is political infighting! And Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I don't think they're being soft in the majority of cases One woman, a care worker with a two year old child, was charged with receiving stolen goods (4 TV's) and having pleaded not guilty the case was referred to crown court. A plea from her lawyer that unless she was given bail she would lose her job and her child would be taken into care was ignored by the magistrate and she was remanded in custody until the crown hearing date! And what's going to be her defence in front of a jury - "I didn't know they were nicked"? Stupid cow - she's ruined her life and her child's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Steal £3.50 worth of water - get 6 months... Steal billions - get a bonus.. There is no doubt that the politicians are now telling the judiciary what to do... Welcome to England - a bankrupt country in all senses of the word, and no different from any banana republic you care to mention! Edit: Oh, and as if to further prove the point.... Hundreds refused bail, and remanded in custody...but: THE millionaire's daughter accused of looting was yesterday in hiding at her family's home. Laura Johnson, 19, was allegedly caught driving away from a riot in Charlton with stolen goods worth £5,500. She was bailed on burglary charges to her parents' £1million home in Orpington, Kent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Cameron's law: PM planning crackdown on rioters Police to have power to shut down social networks Can we expect a similar reaction from Obama?.... Link President Obama expressed disapproval on Thursday of Egypt’s crackdown on the Internet as police battled protestors in the streets of Cairo and other Egyptian cities. The use of social networking sites to organize demonstrations spurred the government of Hosni Mubarak to block Twitter and Facebook and eventually also block both wireless and wired Internet access, according to news reports. During an interview with Steve Grove, the head of news and politics at YouTube, President Obama cited a need for mechanisms that “allow [people] to express legitimate grievances.” “There are certain core values that we believe as Americans are universal: freedom of speech, freedom of expression, people being able to use social networking and other mechanisms to communicate their concerns; and that is no less true in the Arab world than it is in the United States,” he said. Funnily enough Camoron thought it important enough to talk about too... Link Mr Cameron also criticised Egyptian efforts to block access to the internet and called for the bar to be lifted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Does this seem familiar? 1984! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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