sparks Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 A Similar one was doing the rounds after the Student protests... I recall MP's getting all in a state about it then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Do you think that overnight virtual courts with no access to proper legal advice are the way to go in the UK in 2011? No its not the way forward in the 21st Century. As there'll be scapegoats, which is going to happen anyway. Unfortunately those who get found guilty will only recieve minimal sentencing, as we're currently experiencing overcrowding within our Prisons already. Overall, the whole looting & Rioting 'thing' went to far. it really couldn't be compared to thise that kicked off in the early Eighties as this was a blantant, shopping spree stroke attack at all those they had hate for. But you can be assured that those who do get caught, will be truely stitched up, more than any dodgey dealing banker, as mentioned in another similar Post; One rule for Rich & another for the Poor.. :Study: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Unfortunately those who get found guilty will only recieve minimal sentencing, as we're currently experiencing overcrowding within our Prisons already. I'd have said the opposite given the reports so far.. And over two thirds remanded, whereas the usual rate is 10% ! I do find it amusing though that whilst Camoron is going on about arresting as many as possiible and giving out tough deterrent sentences, the guy he sees as his saviour (the american 'super cop') says that's not the answer... "You can't arrest your way out of the problem," His approach is to get the youngsters involved in community centres ....Dumb Dave is of course in the process of closing those centres down! And what everyone has to realise is that all those with a criminal record now become effectively unemployable for life given our draconian CRB set up! That's really just going to make things worse....If you don't have a future, then why should you give a f*ck anymore! Mind you, when the lawyers get involved with appeals and the time it takes to get a crown court trial, the courts are going to be clogged up for years! Especially if the numpties then insist on trying to kick whole families onto the street for an alleged offence by one member of that family....That won't happen of course, but it makes good headlines for the government! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 An interesting article.... Link It was the 1980s and in some strange, New Romantic way the waistcoats and tails may have seemed fashionable. As members of the Bullingdon dining club, which dates back more than 150 years, David Cameron and his friends were obliged to wear the outfits for their annual photograph. But within hours of the photo being taken, the 10 young men were wreaking havoc on Oxford, where they were all at university. One of them, said to be Ewen Fergusson, threw a plant pot through a restaurant window and the police were called. Some tried to make a getaway but were arrested and thrown in police cells overnight. "The party ended up with a number of us crawling on all fours through the hedges of the botanical gardens, and trying to escape police dogs," said Boris Johnson, who was among those arrested. "And once we were in the cells we became pathetic namby-pambies." And what did our illustrious leader say about their antics? Cameron is the leader of the Conservative Party, who said recently: "Like many young people, I did things when I was young that I should not have done and that I regret." He was probably referring to his youthful involvement with cannabis rather than the Bullingdon Club, but the destructive activities of the club mean that many of the members have developed an appropriate amnesia. "The blissful sponge of amnesia has wiped clean the slate of memory," said Mr Johnson. "Until I saw that photograph I had really forgotten all about it," said another former member. The Bullingdon modus operandi is to book a restaurant under a false name, smash it up, and throw large amounts of money at the upset owners — a form of behaviour which dates back to Victorian times. Sounds like 'riotous behaviour' to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I'd have said the opposite given the reports so far.. And over two thirds remanded, whereas the usual rate is 10% ! I do find it amusing though that whilst Camoron is going on about arresting as many as possiible and giving out tough deterrent sentences, the guy he sees as his saviour (the american 'super cop') says that's not the answer... His approach is to get the youngsters involved in community centres ....Dumb Dave is of course in the process of closing those centres down! And what everyone has to realise is that all those with a criminal record now become effectively unemployable for life given our draconian CRB set up! That's really just going to make things worse....If you don't have a future, then why should you give a f*ck anymore! Mind you, when the lawyers get involved with appeals and the time it takes to get a crown court trial, the courts are going to be clogged up for years! Especially if the numpties then insist on trying to kick whole families onto the street for an alleged offence by one member of that family....That won't happen of course, but it makes good headlines for the government! Very true, sounds like the Cut Backs are going to be a thorn in Davids Side on all sides of this coin; ranging from the Police, Prisons & local authorities. Plus the weather reports, more bad news on the horizon, what with the EU falling apart.. Happy Days.. :Tongue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 An Open Letter to David Cameron’s Parents link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Putting it simply for those who dont understand..Looting is a cowards crime,it is not a misdemeanor, it is a crime commited just for personal gain on the back of other peoples misfortune. professional people should be hit hardest with sentence,they should know better. If they dont they aint worth a w**k All sentences should be the same for all involved Looting set high sentence Rioting set high sentence etc No exceptions. TSB is Looting my accounts and has for years. They call it fees and charges (yet they make money by having my money) For this Looting and as it's professional people the sentence needs to be the hardest of high sentences. I'd just like to point out that NOT all the Rioters Were Looting and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Interesting take on what a 'criminal' is... Police used number-plate spotting technology to turn known criminals away from Manchester in the days after the riots. How do you tell a 'known criminal' from a reg plate? And what were their crimes?... “We were instructing anyone with a previous conviction that they had to leave the city. Quite a number of them had serious previous convictions.” So most (if they were actually properly identified at all) had done nothing serious at all? And those convictions were obviously in the past. So what now - pre-emptive injustice? This of course has been going on with protestors for years... Anyone believe we aren't living in a police state!! So all those in the kangaroo courts going on now will be judged for life... “We are capitalising on the public’s mood – one of being appalled at what has happened. “People are now talking to us who have never done so before. But there should not be a knee-jerk reaction away from neighbourhood policing – that is still the best way to gather intelligence and keep in touch with the community. “We must get back to normality now and we want people to go back into the city centre. Yeah, like pointing guns at people?... No wonder that f*cking yank is being called in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 This isn't Justice - It's vengeance! UK riots: magistrates told 'ignore the rule book' and lock up looters Courts are being advised that the scale of last week’s civil disobedience means that offences committed during the riots should be dealt with more harshly. The memo, sent late last week by the capital’s most senior justice clerks, led one magistrate to warn that any offenders involved in the “anarchy” can expect a prison sentence. The looters broke society's rules... Now society is breaking it's own rules! The meltdown continues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So come on... How many agree with this? http://www.guardian....sorder-facebook England riots: pair jailed for four years for using Facebook to incite disorder Two men – whose posts did not result in riot-related event – sentenced at Chester crown court after arrests last week How long before it becomes a 'crime' to criticise such a sentence?...How long before it becomes a 'crime' to criticise the Government?...How long before it becomes a 'crime' for just thinking the government is crap! Mixed with the talk of curfews for all, who is now in any doubt we are actually no better than those countries we condemn for their abuses of their own populations? We are creating political prisoners in all but name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Whole thing is a joke now IMO. I have no issues with banging them up but 4 years seems a bit ott to me, but before eveyone has a pop at me, look at this and then ask if it's right. These guys get 4 years and Gary Glitter gets 4 months for having thousands of images of child pron, now when you look at it like that it stinks either GG should have got more or these guys get less then GG got as IMO being a nonce is worse then having some scumbag trying to nick a tv or laptop, if i have it wrong will someone please explain it to me and where my thought process is wrong? I don't think you can lump us in with some of these other countries sparks (yet), however when you take a look at how the UK has changed in the last 20 odd years and how we have lost so many rights, it's no wonder you draw those conclusions (spelling), i do wonder what it will be like in another 20 years and who knows in 50 maybe we will have the thought police (Blair would be so proud). All1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Just a thought..Imagine looking from the outside in from certain quarters... The requests to shut down messaging services, general curfews, dispersal orders, kangaroo courts/instant 'justice', forced homelessness, the world's biggest surveillance system and an increasingly militarised police force that is largely unaccountable, limited access to legal services, secret courts, house arrest without trial... Add to that a corrupt parliament/said police force, discredited electoral system, a ruling/wealthy elite creaming off the nations wealth... A nation that attacks/invades other sovereign states illegally in order for financial gain... (And you wait until you see what they have is store next year all in the name of a 'Safe Olympics'... :Winky:) How else would you describe the UK, ALL1...? And a view from the other side... http://www.presstv.i...ail/194012.html Is our propoganda any better or worse than theirs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Just a thought..Imagine looking from the outside in from certain quarters... The requests to shut down messaging services, general curfews, dispersal orders, kangaroo courts/instant 'justice', forced homelessness, the world's biggest surveillance system and an increasingly militarised police force that is largely unaccountable, limited access to legal services, secret courts, house arrest without trial... Add to that a corrupt parliament/said police force, discredited electoral system, a ruling/wealthy elite creaming off the nations wealth... A nation that attacks/invades other sovereign states illegally in order for financial gain... I do see what your saying but as it stands right now were not as bad as the middle east yet but as i say i do fear for the freedoms of people in years to come, but i'll be long gone in 50 years. (And you wait until you see what they have is store next year all in the name of a 'Safe Olympics'... :Winky:)No worries for me m8, I just ain't going out for 3 weeks, mind guess i'll still need and rectal exam given I live in London, if it's bad for me what the hell will it be like for a Black or Muslim, sod that. Is our propoganda any better or worse than theirs?You call it propoganda, I call it bullsh1t How else would you describe the UK, ALL1...? F U C K E D. All1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 From what the deputy prime minister was saying yesterday I think they're going to resume community service sentences soon (they've probably filled all the prisons). He was talking about offenders wearing gitmo style orange jump suits so the public could recognise them - I thought we'd done away with the stocks as punishment. The police were also commended for protecting the Olympic site, with no mention of which night / nights they were doing that - day one maybe? It would explain why there were so few of them on the streets of Hackney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason7579 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I don't follow the news too much so apologies in advance if any of my opinions are based on fiction rather than fact and I'm always happy to listen to constructive criticism of my views - whether I pay attention to it or not is another matter altogether. Reading all of the above and going by what I have seen: The MPs who fiddled the system should have had bigger penalties etc. but I think people have already aired their views about this when it happened so I am not going to say much more about it. The rioter and looters - or a number of other words I would use for them cowards (the majority of them), common thieves, w's, scum, etc... in my opinion are much worse than the mp's. The majority of them as far as I could see went out to get a few freebies and used any excuse possible to justify their actions which were unjustifiable. A lot of them targeted innocent people in the form of small family businesses (that had nothing worth looting) and residential properties to get a kick and have a laugh. They didn't stop for one second to think about the people that they would be affecting, my little girl (9) was too scared to go to sleep and there was no trouble in my area. I had to finish work early along with countless others causing disruption to businesses across London / and other parts of England. Some of us decided to visit a local pub and there were a lot more people in there than usual. I overheard a small ish group talking and they weren't from the local area, they had come down just to wait for trouble to kick off so they could go get a new pair of trainers or a tv or whatever (and they weren't as youthful as the papers and tv make out). The atmosphere in the area was quite tense with small pockets of gangs hanging around but the police presence and the lack of any of the idiots having the balls/stupidity to actually start the trouble meant that very little (if anything) happened. I'm all for community service, get them to clean the streets they have ruined and the ones that were already ruined by lack of care from the local government. I'm also for harsh prison sentences within reason - as said before people like paedo's (should be shot) should have first dibs in our prisons and have maximum sentences. Its just a pity that prisons are much more luxurious than I would have them. I would like to think if there had been looting and my little girl or boy (when they are a bit older theoretically speaking) came home with a couple of tvs and 12 left reeboks I would march them back to the shops to return the goods, apologise and work off their debt. (ps hello everyone, not been around so much over the past months or more as life has been a bit hectic with kids and work but hoping to get back on here a bit more often and air my useless opinions and random crap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 A bit of commen sence for a change. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14589259 Mind you "75 of hours of unpaid voluntary work" seems steep to me as well. All1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 As I said before - many more of this to come...the courts will be clogged up for ages! And meanwhile the real crims will be getting away with it because the prisons are full with 'rioters' ... or should I dare say it - political prisoners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yet again in this weeks current bun another nonce walked free from court, yet bang up someone for nicking a bottle of water, what beats me is joe public don't seem to care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 'Joe public' doesn't care because they are spoon fed lies.. But when 'joe public' finally wises up to those lies, these recent riots will be a footnote in the history books! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 'Joe public' doesn't care because they are spoon fed lies.. But when 'joe public' finally wises up to those lies, these recent riots will be a footnote in the history books! Yes - the French made their riots last for three weeks not three days - come on UK - must do better next time, preferably when the prisons are full to capacity, there are only 1200 places left and counting Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djweeble Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Highest estimated cost of riots: £100m. Tax Avoidance by Vodafone: £6 Billion Tax spent on Libyan intervention: £1 Billion Tax avoidance in 2010 by richest people in UK: £7 Billion Tax payers bill for banking crisis: £131 Billion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Somethings gonna blow! Prison service chiefs have sounded the alarm over potential unrest and violence in overcrowded jails in England and Wales as hundreds of rioters have swelled the prison population to a record level. The Prison Service admitted on Friday that they are "closely monitoring the estate for any potential unrest" after the prison population broke through the 86,000 mark for the first time. The governors of all jails in England and Wales were earlier this week warned by the Prison Service's "gold commander", who was running the emergency response to the riots, to take steps to ensure the safety of those involved in public disorder who had been remanded in custody for the first time in their lives, it emerged on Friday. "This morning there has been a nasty three person alleged assault. All three victims were public disorder remands, two currently in hospital," Andrew Cross, the Prison Service's deputy director of operations who was acting as gold commander, reported in the email sent out on Monday. A separate email to governors from the Prison Service's national operations group asks them to "watch the mood and atmosphere in your prison" in the aftermath of the alleged assault on three people, which it says took place at Cookham Wood young offenders institution at Borstal in Kent. The internal justice ministry emails indicate that while prison chiefs are fairly confident that they can provide sufficient cells to cope with the rocketing prison population, they have more immediate concerns about the volatility of the jail population. They appear particularly concerned that existing inmates, perhaps from rival gangs, will attack some unwary, unconvicted riot defendants who have never been in trouble before and have little idea of how to safely navigate the gang-hardened culture inside some jails. And well done Camoron....you've just created an army for the next wave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Isn't it funny how quick some are to condemn without any evidence.... :Winky: Remember this 'headline offence'? http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/21/dane-williamson-cleared-manchester-riots Things are not as they appear to be at the time yet again are they! Still, the cops obviously thought he was a good 'patsy'... :Winky: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Dane told how he had been arrested, saying: "One of my mates had said: 'Are you sure you were not involved in the riots? The photo of the arsonist looks a bit like you.' "We had a laugh and a joke about it. Two police officers were stood in front of Phones 4 You, and I said: 'I'll prove it's not me,' and walked in front of the coppers. When I came out of the shop they grabbed me and then three more approached and asked if I had been involved in the riots. I said no. "The next thing I was arrested in the middle of the street on suspicion of arson. I couldn't believe it. It was surreal. And he was surprised he got nicked - f*ck me sparks is he dolly dimple or what?? Stick your hand in the lion's mouth and see if it bites - of course it bites - that's its bloody nature!! It's what I said about the kids not being street wise - I learnt at a very early age not to take the p!ss out of the old bill - they don't appreciate it at all... In that situation I'd have gone back to my flat and not come out until I'd grown a beard and even then I'd make sure I kept well out of the gaze of a copper Muppet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 au contraire... 'street wise' is about knowing your rights, not running away imo... when the 'old bill' take the p iss, they need to be taken down a peg or two - not the other way around! You have just acknowledged that you believe that 'the law' (aka the police) is a 'law unto itself'....I don't ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I just don't think that he's a good example of the point you're trying to make: So your friends tell you that you closely resemble someone that the police are looking for and you think it's a good idea to go parade yourself in front of a couple of coppers, who will have your apparent likeness fresh in their minds, in order to assert your innocence of commiting a crime that has become such an emotive issue that it's a dead cert they are going to arrest you? Braver man than me gunga din Surely there is a time to be confrontational, when the old bill are out of order and don't have the current support of the public to be heavy handed, and there is a time to walk away? In my day street wise was how to avoid getting nicked, mugged, stabbed or shot - in that order :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It's a perfectly good example, as it shows how young naive people actually behave, despite being innocent - and how the police regard 'innocence' and 'guilt' !... "The evidence against Mr Williamson was based on recognition from visual recordings. However following the charge the police discovered CCTV footage which significantly undermined the case." I wonder how many have been convicted on initial so-called 'visual evidence'?.... That is why people have to learn that they must 'front up' the police, and not run away in fear!! To do otherwise emboldens the f*ckers, and gives them a feeling of invincibility...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Since when should the police interfere with the work of the judiciary?... http://www.guardian....uspects-custody Senior Metropolitan police officers devised a policy of holding all people arrested on riot-related offences in custody and recommending that the courts also refuse bail after they were charged, according to a leaked "prisoner processing strategy" that lawyers argue could pave the way for a mass legal challenge. The document, seen by the Guardian, was circulated to all investigating officers at the height of the violence two weeks ago by Operation Withern, the codename for Scotland Yard's emergency response to the outbreak of violence in the capital. It suggested that no one arrested in or after the riots should be let off with a caution – regardless of the offence – and that everyone arrested should be held in custody, with a recommendation that bail should also be denied when the case first goes to court. Lawyers began proceedings on Monday for the first judicial review of the custody procedures, which resulted in 62% of those arrested for involvement in the riots remanded in custody compared with a normal rate of around 10% for more serious offences. They claimed the document amounted to a blanket policy of mass imprisonment of people. The police document argues that the policy was necessary to prevent further public disorder as violence spread through the capital. But it also acknowledges that the force was so stretched at the height of the riots that it was "impractical" to bail people while they conducted "protracted" investigations, suggesting that investigating officers use special rules to fast-track cases to the courts with less evidence than is normally required. The recommendation could expose the Metropolitan police to accusations that it adopted a policy of "conveyer belt" justice in order to deal with its unprecedented workload. What's the moral difference between mass imprisonment in remand centres, and 'concentrating' people in camps? Further evidence of the UK police state we live in...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 This is interesting... Now son of former Met Police boss is arrested over riots A man held on suspicion of looting a mobile phone store in the riots is the son of a former police boss, it emerged today. Mark Duvall, 26, was arrested on Friday in connection with an attack on a Vodafone shop in Woolwich, South London. His father Len was chairman of the Met Police Authority and is leader of the Labour Group on the London Assembly. Last week Mr Duvall OBE, the London Assembly member for Greenwich and Lewisham, called for public help to track down the rioters. He said: 'I'm dismayed and outraged by the mindless violence, theft, criminal damage and risk to life we have seen in Greenwich and Lewisham and around London. 'I'm urging anyone with information, families and friends who might know people caught up in all this, to speak to the police.' So given the current practice of remanding suspects, one would assume that this guy would be behind bars... Scotland Yard have confirmed a 26-year-old was arrested on suspicion of burglary and has been released on bail. A source told the Sunday Mirror: 'Len knows all the senior officers. This is a bit of a nightmare.' Or then again, maybe not.... Plod - corrupt, corrupt from the bottom to the top.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidP Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 It does so intrigue me to follow your threads on here Sparks! You're doing a huge community service, for me at least. I have some basic beliefs that I fondly think are held by most other rational human beings but your posts remind me that they're not universal at all! In my opinion there is no excuse for the sort of activities you saw in GB recently. None at all. What could give those kids the right to behave like that to other kids, to innocent and hard working small businessmen, to other people generally. Let alone shooting at unarmed policemen. I understand not all of them did any of these things but some did and I can't imagine how anyone could describe them as political dissenters. Having said that, I don't think 10 weeks for most of them is inadequate. Most of them were kids following the pack, probably decent enough when not riled up like that. There seemed to be a lot of people saying its the Government's fault but how could that be? The Government doesn't run our lives. You could make a case that they unduly influence but we're still free to make decisions within a pretty broad range. Unemployment is a huge problem but in a system like yours it doesn't imply starvation. In Australia plenty of people choose to be unemployed because the benefits are sufficient and i doubt its much different over your way. So there's no 'desperation' argument here either. I believe the problem is lack of the right guidance by parents and lack of consequences. And these two things are linked. If parents thought there were serious consequences for anti-social behaviour they might try to protect their kids from them. Keep up the good work Sparks. It doesn't do any harm for the complacent majority to be reminded that anarchy is still dear to the hearts of many!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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