sparks Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I'm assuming that if one of our kids murdered someone or beat up an old person etc we would take them straight down to the police station... But if your kid was involved in the riots, or nicked something what would you do? Instinct says yes you should turn them in.... But nowadays the real punishment isn't the sentence...it's the lifelong tag you have put on you that means you have no effective future. In my day, there was the 'rehabilitation of offenders act', which meant do the crime and accept the punishment. After a period, if you behave it won't be neccessary to disclose that crime. It acted as an incentive to not re-offend. Where is that incentive now? So for that reason, I wouldn't shop my kids to the cops....they would of course get hell from me! What do others think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badlad Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Yes I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 But nowadays the real punishment isn't the sentence...it's the lifelong tag you have put on you that means you have no effective future. In my day, there was the 'rehabilitation of offenders act', which meant do the crime and accept the punishment. After a period, if you behave it won't be neccessary to disclose that crime. It acted as an incentive to not re-offend. Where is that incentive now? Not to sure what your saying here m8, are you saying convictions are never "spent" any more? If that's the case then i can see your point about no incentive, if it was simple stealing (shoplifting) then no i would not tell plod, however looting and rioting are a different ball game IMO, i know on that mon/tues evening when it kicked off i was worried for myself and my home, the rule of law had gone out the window (I know it's not great at the best of time) and looting is a big no no, so i would grass them up even if convictions are never spent any more. I did see some mother on tv the other day crying that she did grass her own kid up and full credit to her takes balls to do it IMO All1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I think I would sit them down and have a very long chat with them and find out why they had involved themselves in looting and explain to them how wrong it was and say that it would remain on their conscience for a very long time, if not the rest of their life if they didn't hand themselves in to the police. If they were old enough to make the decision to loot then they must make the decision as to whether they are punished for it or not - the responsibility lies with them. If it happened to any of mine it would only have been a spur of the moment thing, definitely not pre-planned, none of them would or ever have gone out with the intention of stealing. Would I drag them down to the local nick and hand them over to the old bill - no way Then again I've got very intelligent, reasonable and responsible kids who all have a sound grasp of right and wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Not to sure what your saying here m8, are you saying convictions are never "spent" any more? All1 Check out what is covered by a CRB check and an 'enhanced' CRB check... The former doesn't disclose certain offences which are 'spent', although not all. The latter (which was supposed to be only for those working with kids and vulnerable adults) is being increasingly used for 'run of the mill' jobs and does - it ignores the idea of 'spent' convictions, and even includes rumours/heresay 'evidence'! i know on that mon/tues evening when it kicked off i was worried for myself and my home, the rule of law had gone out the window (I know it's not great at the best of time) and looting is a big no no, so i would grass them up even if convictions are never spent any more. I understand that feeling ALL1...The rule of law did indeed go out of the window as I've been predicting for years, but do we tag the perpetrators of actions that don't threaten people with a life that means they have no chance of employment/hope alongside the violent ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Then again I've got very intelligent, reasonable and responsible kids who all have a sound grasp of right and wrong... So have I, I hope... But can any of us honestly say their kids wouldn't get caught up in something in the heat of the moment? Most of us can't 'pay off' the victim with daddy's money should we smash up a restaurant on a whim, so where are we with the idea of 'right and wrong'..? I've done silly stuff that went over the 'official' line, and I was brought up to know 'what is what'... But I've gone on to live a 'crime free' life (according to my values :Winky: ) - so should I have been 'tagged' forever for what I had done on the spur of the moment in the eyes of the state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndLoser Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I heard a psychologist saying that a riot holds a kind of excitement for those caught up in one and I can see it brings out a pack mentality - also perhaps the kids these days don't seem to play on the streets the same way my generation did - perhaps there's a connection there? I'll tell you a story One night a mate and I were coming back from a night club and walked through Lewisham about 2 am, we came across a shoe shop with a bricked window and the alarm going off. There were expensive shoes all over the pavement but we didn't touch a thing - what we did do was get off the main road before the old bill showed up because being at the scene quite stoned / drunk would have made us a too easy target for a fit up! The kids these days are quite naive and not at all street wise like their parent's generation. Then again when I was young the police could and would punch you if they didn't have evidence to charge you with an offence they knew you had committed and if you played up at school you'd get the cane rather than be suspended and miss out on valuable education. A high percentage of kids on estates all over the UK are illiterate because of policies like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloneword Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Check out what is covered by a CRB check and an 'enhanced' CRB check... The former doesn't disclose certain offences which are 'spent', although not all. The latter (which was supposed to be only for those working with kids and vulnerable adults) is being increasingly used for 'run of the mill' jobs and does - it ignores the idea of 'spent' convictions, and even includes rumours/heresay 'evidence'! I know i come back clean from a CRB check as my stuff is spent and i guess i agree with convictions not being spent if you work with kiddies but the enhanced should only with kiddies, as for the rumour stuff well that's a joke. but do we tag the perpetrators of actions that don't threaten people with a life that means they have no chance of employment/hope alongside the violent ones?I would not say they had "no hope" but it does make life much harder for them i agree, but i'd like to think i'd have the balls to report my kid. All1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I know i come back clean from a CRB check as my stuff is spent and i guess i agree with convictions not being spent if you work with kiddies but the enhanced should only with kiddies, as for the rumour stuff well that's a joke. All1 Sorry ALL1, but you won't 'come up as clean' as you think! All your 'crimes' are logged and released to the general business community as required (by them)... As such, the latest illegal sentences are creating yet again a 'criminal underclass' whether they are a real criminal or not! As the song says...."there's trouble ahead".... :Winky: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Here's a useful guide to what a conviction means in present day HM open prison UK.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14556347 "Once upon a time you could pick up a criminal conviction and it wouldn't matter because only you and a handful of other people would know about it - employers didn't think in terms of criminal records," he said. "Now we have widespread criminal record checks and I would imagine that in a few years we might have universal record checks. "You can't escape your past as you could previously - it is a major problem." I see there are more 'yes' than 'no ' in this poll... Anyone thinking again if you've read that article? Edit: Oh, if any of you are wondering why I have a passion about this... In 1982 I was accused of a crime I didn't commit...I was told to 'accept my punishment like a good boy' in the magistrates court. At risk of a prison sentence I took it to a crown court, and when my legal aid barrister advised against my strategy (openly in court accusing my accuser*), I did it anyway! I shall recall the wig's comments forever... wig: why did you bother taking this so far? me: so I don't have to answer that question again. wig: quite right - case dismissed! *my accuser was subsequently convicted of the crime I was accused of, and got a 2 month suspended sentence whereas I faced a jail sentence... His conviction is on record...The false accusation against me now shows up on an enhanced CRB check anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Probably not. But I haven't got the strong mile wide streak of decency that the mother who shopped her tosspot daughter into the cops has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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